Codependency Support Group

VENGENCE, PROTECTION OR CO-DEPENDENCY?

I need input. I have briefly spoke to my counselor and will be sending her a copy of this so she can read this before we discuss this issue again. I heard something on a radio talk show talking about “vengeful spouses”

As you know I desperately want to get on with my and I have been trying, but I have blockers from the Ex. He’s still jealous, and has told me so on several occasions, but will use the excuse - he’s concerned about the kids. He has people “watching” me all the time. The people at the corner of the street let him know when I leave and return and who’s vehicle has been out my house. There is someone else in the neighborhood that also does this for him. There is a guy that’s in a wheelchair, used to be both our friend, but does the same thing for him. (I call this guy the drug dealer on wheels). When had gotten into some heated conversation shortly after the storm and I confronted him and asked him was he “mad” that I didn’t has for his help throughout all this, and he said yeah sorta. Then another day we were talking, trying to be amicable and he said “you control who I am suppose to have around the kids and I will do the same for you.” Now the decree states that he has supervised visitation under my supervision, due to the circumstances at the time of the divorce - there are quite a few injunctions in the decree (some of them I shot myself in the foot when I prepared it, but these things happen) that are intense. So with that brief information, I hope you can follow what I am about to ask and please feel free to express your opinion.


I was recently asked by a friend - “are you a vengeful person” I said “no”, I did tell him that I did do a vengeful thing by throwing most of my ex’s stuff away after waiting 6 weeks for him to pick it up but as a general rule - no, especially not now in my life, many moons ago, yes. In fact, I still have some of his stupid stuff in my garage and a bed I was giving him in my living room, but that too is getting ready to change - but I call that frustration, not vengence.


Now- before I get started, I want everyone to know, that I am very protective of my children. I have a beautiful 16 year old daughter, who at times can look 19 years or older and an autistic son, so I am very concerned about who I have around them. In fact, I’ve only allowed 1 person that I’ve gone out with to meet my children. We met for lunch, each of us with our children, and that was that. I do not allow people to come to my house, primarily as I feel like I am trying to protect those people from the preying eyes that live around me and until it’s a person I really want to date, there’s no need for them to be at my house, I am a single mother with children.


So, in the midst of all the storm brain confusion, I’ve thought about the statement my ex made to me - about controlling who I will have around the children. I know at this point he can’t but in his underlying way it appears that it can. I know my ex has issues and I don’t want to dog him, as I am the one that married him and I am the one that had 2 children with him. I keep hoping that he will get the help he needs and that he will turn his life around for Tyler’s sake and the sake of his relationship with Tori. If I didn’t have children with him, I would never have to speak to him again and that would make me happy! Spiritually, I have forgiven him for all he’s done and continue to forgive him for the things he does. In this forgiveness, I learned that I do not have to have him a part of my life, only my children’s lives. NOW - I have so many restrictions and supervision due to his behavior - he continues to tell me he’s doing this and changing this and that, but I have absolutely no trust in him and through the grape vine I hear his behaviors have not quite change - maybe he’s not drinking, but his “behavior” and the way he thinks hasn’t changed. He’s got a chip on his shoulder very bad and no one can knock it off. I am not saying with the crappy life he’s had that he doesn’t have just cause to feel the way he feels, but you don’t have to stay wrapped up in that world, you can change, especially when it comes to your kids. No he doesn’t pay child support and never has for any of his children, this I know will never happen, no matter what. I have been to the police, I have kept journals, I bought recording equipment, but now need to buy another phone to actually use it, and I am just so damn tired of this man costing me money. He drained me dry of my inheritance from my grandmother, almost caused me to file bankruptcy for a second time - the first time I filed was due to a financial situation he put me in with all his charm and promises, so to have to do anything to protect myself and the kids that costs me money just burns me up! Now let me see if I can’t get to my point - It seems like he will always be watching me and causing problems in any relationship I want to be in and I don’t think that’s fair to the other person, and if they have children, fair to their children.



SOOOOOOOO here it is. Is my situation that I am in VENGENCE, PROTECTION OR CO-DEPENDENCY - I feel I must protect my children from his lack of concern,support and exposure to people I don’t approve of. I can only go off past experience, not “his way of change” as he puts it. His oldest daughter was raised by his mother and her other grandmother until she was 6 and then by her other grandmother. Once Ty was married to Judi (his second wife) and then me he would get Crystal on the weekends and regularly. He allowed her to do whatever she wanted. If she was grounded he would go get her and let her not be grounded, etc. But Ty didn’t get her and take care of her, it was either the grandparents,the wives or Ty’s sister. He did pick her up and drop her off for the most part, but the actual hands on care was for other people. So I am concerned about Ty being able to take care of Tyler (and this isn’t about Tori, she’s made her mind up about her dad and I can’t change that now). He doesn’t have a “home base” no job, and a motorcycle right now. All during the marriage, I used to paint a picture to the world that he was a great dad, but instead he was a big kid too and not a dad. He like to “break or challenge” the rules. Example, Tyler can’t have caffiene, but he saw no problem in letting him sip off his cokes - iknow that sounds petty, but I will explain later on this. Ty is not very good with routines and schedules and Tyler must be kept on a schedule, or the best as possible a schedule. Ty likes to get people to help him with the kids, ok, fine - but I do have in the decree certain people that can not be around the kids - 1 person being the lady he had an affair with. Not because of the affair, but because she’s freaking NUTS! She uses people, including her children and other people’s children to gain what she wants out of a situation. She drinks, she’s adult ADHD, takes meds for that and self medicates with illegal drugs - if you ever get to know this person, she’s an adult, but you swear you are talking to and dealing with a junior aged girl! The 2nd person would be Crystal’s mother, Ty’s first wife. This person has every disease known to man kind, is goverment funded in every part of her life, was NEVER there for Crystal and still is not and her son dropped outta school in the 8th grade. She once got mad at Ty for not buying her son rolling papers. This is the most selfish woman I’ve ever met and if she is NOT the center of attention, SOMETHING will happen to the person receiving more attention than she. She has ALWAYS hated my guts, which I could care less about, and I fear for my son’s safety around her. In fact, David, Crystal’s husband has made it very clear that she is not to be around her own granddaughter - unsupervised! There are other women listed but they aren’t really an issue. So for now in my decree, Ty has no rights, supervised visitation and child support orders. Even though he’s admitted me to several times, he knows I’ve done this to protect the children, he also gets very angry about it. I think I would be too.



So, I am curious - as to myself: I am vengeful - is the way I have my decree structured VENGENCE?



I am protective - is the way I have my decree structured PROTECTION?



Is this my co-dependency (as most of you probably know co-dependency is an umbrella of things from over doing it “people pleasing” to “being a control freak” and I am both of those - is the way I have my decree structured CO-DEPENDENT, so that I am total control of my children?



I have wondered should he and I sit down and rework the decree, enter into an agreement and file it with the Court? I know he will NOT comply with any agreement we come up with, he will NEVER take Tyler for the weekends, as that would leave me free and available to date. Of course, he will never pay support. Should I just keep as is and if I want to date someone and bring them into my children’s lives, then that person knows what they could be facing and let that person make the decision, as opposed to me feeling I need to protect that person and their kids. Ty’s just gonna act like a jerk and probably get me to involve the police once or twice, before he will back down, but is my co-dependency so strong that I feel I must protect somebody before the events even happen? Shouldn’t I just let that person say - hey, don’t worry about it, I like you enough that you put up with my ex and I will put up with your ex?



As it stands now, I send him updates on the kids, I send him copies of stuff from the schools, I send him copies of tyler’s work, I send him pictures of the kids, I just don’t talk to him. He doesn’t come and see Tyler, really cuz it has to be under my supervision and iwon’t allow him back in my house. I know he still loves me he says it to me al l the time, even when he’s calling me a bitch, whore, slut, internet whore, liar, etc, you know all the choice words - I don’t want him to love me, I don’t want him to like me - I don’t care how he feels about me at all, I just worry so much about Tyler and how hard I’ve worked to get him to the point he’s at now. Tyler WILL BE A HIGH FUNCTIONING AUTISTIC - I will see to that and I am concerned that Ty, in his way - will think he’s being cute, funny and deceptive towards me but will only be hurting Tyler. If he disrupts him and doesn’t follow a schedule, doesn’t stick to the diet, IT ONLY HURTS TYLER in school, behavioral and learning wise - See Ty doesn’t believe in labels, of course he wants to think all his children are perfect and he never really has believed anything was wrong with Tyler, he just tells me,that I kept him home with me too long and never put him in social atmospheres - (I was in severe depression mode at this point - TO MAKE THAT LONG STORY SHORT ------- my father passed away the day before Thanksgiving 6 years ago this year and me and my stepmother had to make the decision to stop life support, about 3 weeks later I gave birth to Tyler, my 2nd c-section and my tubes tied, I was fighting PPD and my dad’s loss, but couldn’t let Ty know as he was no support in that area and then about 2 months after Tyler’s birth my grandmother (the most important person in my life passed away) (Before I was pregnant I was becoming suspicious of Ty’s relationship with the Tracy - the lady he ended up having the affair with - Ty always had NUMEROUS female friends - but that’s another story for another day) When Tyler was 6 weeks old Tyler revoked his probation and they gave him 30 days in county jail and said he could continue probation after that. Ty was suppose to stay home with Tyler while I went back to work, but instead he went to county for 30 days and I had to go back to work part-time and let his sister watch Tyler as she couldn’t watch him all day while I worked full-time. Ty then stayed home with Tyler, but I couldn’t work full time as I couldn’t trust Ty with Tyler - his drinking, his sleeping, etc. In fact, Tori, before Tyler was born, would go next door to my grandmother’s several times cuz she couldn’t get her dad to wake up when she got off the bus., When Tyler was 14 months old, Ty revoked his probation for a 2nd time and they gave him 2 years in prison. About a month after he was in prison, my boss had really had enough and let me go, can’t say as I blame her, because his family really wouldn’t help me and I could only work part-time and she needed a full time legal assistant (she and I are still great friends by the way). For our entire marriage I was the sole support of the family. Ty worked off and on, but made no contribution. He worked for 1 year at the same place during the marriage and still made no contribution financially. All this time I am still trying to be mom to Tori and new mom to Tyler and take care of Ty, who is now in prison. Before the 2nd time his probation was revoked, I was ready to file for divorce for a 2nd time, but I thought well Prison will do it, that will get his life together - after a few letters from Ty, I knew that prison was gonna make the after life worse, SOOOOOOO I spent my days and nights working on parole packages, writing him letters, giving him updates on the kids, pictures of the kids, was there at his granddaughter’s birth taking pictures to send him, driving 6 hours to visit him and making sure he had at least $150.00 in commissary (which is SUPER WEALTH in prison), all along still having suspicions of him having a girlfriend - I can’t tell you the amount of money I spent in postage and my phone bills were an easy $200.00 per month each month, this is when I began working from home. Due to my hard work and Ty’s cooperation IN PRISON - you people with mates in prison know what I am talking about - Ty got released after 9 months and was then placed on parole - He had an ankle monitor for 90 days after his release. Things just went downhill from there. I still had suspensions of the affair but couldn’t prove it, in fact my proof didn’t come until October 20, 2007, AFTER the divorce was final and about a month ago he finally admitted that he was seeing Tracy for the 5 years I was suspicious of including when I went to pick him up from prison, she was at the bus station waiting for him, in case I didn’t show up. In 2006, Ty did admit that he had been with Tracy “but couldn’t do anything” cuz they were so coked up, and he was closing that chapter, it never happened and I just wasn’t the same after that, our relationship wasn’t the same after that - and our sexual relationship went down hill really fast after that. I tried marriage counseling and he wouldn’t go, I tried everything but my gut kept telling me I was right in my thoughts. Ty finally had driven me to the point of insanity or suicide when I finally decided to finalize the divorce. He knew I was right and kept telling me and messing with my mind that I was making it all up - and even allowed me to get on Zoloft for depression, knowing damn good and well I wouldn’t be depressed had he just been honest. So throughout all this, I stopped loving him many moons ago, I hadn’t like him for many years and I needed to know that I was doing the right thing by divorce, as I know you reap what you sew and Ty and I had gotten together 17 years ago when “we had an affair” and broke up two marriages because of it, so I felt I was getting the punishment I deserved for that action. When I finally finalized the divorce I WAS SO RELIEVED and had never felt so happy since I was a child - I honestly can’t remember a day, other than the birth of my children that I was so happy. I had been through enough counseling prior to the divorce that I felt NO guilt, no nothing just complete and utter happiness.



After that I still tried to work things out (co-dependency at it’s highest point - I knew I could FIX anything!) with Ty,his continued I am sorry stories and I felt I needed to do something as I had kids with him. On 10-20 I found the evidence of his 5 year relationship and my world found the peace I had been looking for all this time!!!!!! The peace turned to TOTAL ANGER! I was so mad at the person who was suppose to be my friend (set aside the “husband”) we had known each other since we were 13 years old - and are in our 40's and this person LIED to me soooo much, I knew he had used and lied to me before but what made me the angriest, was that he WAS GOING TO LET ME GO INSANE or committ suicide (he kept saying to me, you are as weak as your mother, take the road your mother took) so after a few months of anger, I started spiritual counseling, I had to find peace - which I did and I learned about forgiveness and I forgave him. I still can’t stand him, I don’t hate him, I jsut don’t like him.



I am not mad at the world, I don’t hate men and I still believe in romance, and love. The last 5 years of the marriage going down hill was just the straw that broke the camel’s back, the first 12 years were quite a doozy too, but this portion of it is long enough. (That’s it in a nutshell)



Now, I am not perfect, don’t claim to be perfect, but I was a good and faithful wife and I am good mother. I still make mistakes as I am human, but with all this said, am I controlling what happens between him and our children as vengence, protection or my co-dependency? So am I being overly co-dependent (too controlling), is it vengence or is it being a protective mother? If I give in to him and change the decree, giving him rights, letting him have standard visitation, he still won’t pay support, he won’t be cooperative in the necessity decisions of the children (I know this from being married to him) he won’t do the right thing with Tyler (or I don’t think he will) and he won’t exercise his visitation AND IF for some reason he does, it won’t be a regular thing and there will ALWAYS be an excuse as to why he’s late picking up, returning or having to return at different time - he will still control what type of life I have - or this is my opinion anyway. I personally feel I just need to keep things as they are - and find the right person willing to put up with him, just like I do, I only have 13 more years of this - well 12, Tyler will be 6 in December. The only way Ty really will leave me alone is if I marry a cop. His second wife did that and she’s had peace from him. I personally can’t stand police officers, I can’t stand the type of people they become once they start wearing a badge, but believe me the thought has crossed my mind.



INPUT - LOTS OF IT PLEASE - again do I sound vengenful, protective or is my co-depedency (the controlling part - under the umbrella of co-depedency) so outta control that it’s ruining my life? I hate to sound like I am dogging him as it sounds like a soap opera - I want so bad to just have a normal life, if that’s possible?????? Btw he signed the decree after a night of drinking and partying - he swears I forged his name on it - so it’s not like he didn’t know what he was signing. The man has a photographic memory one of the most highly intelligent people you can ever meet - so he will never convince me he didn’t know what he was signing, he was being pressured by his girlfriend to get the divorce over with when he did sign it and now he and his girlfriend aren’t together and she should be finalizing her divorce soon - Boy if you ever want to hear a good story about how somebody used somebody and walked away $250,000.00 richer - her story is one that will make you sick to your stomach - if I didn’t have a conscious I guess it would be ok to use somebody to the point you can walk away from a marriage, confirmed and proven adultery, not just once either and still pocket $250,000.00 - like I say - dirty money is dirty money no matter how it comes about - and what goes around comes around this I know - I’ve reaped what I sewed in life - that’s why NOW I want to do the RIGHT THING - that reaping part can be pure hell - lol!!!!!!!!



Life is still blessed - i feel great and not full of hate - just confusion - lol
Posted on 10/12/08, 11:10 pm