Codependency Support Group

Hi Bipanah,
first I'd like to start by saying that your feelings are your feelings and you don't need to explain or justify them to anyone. If you feel betrayed you feel betrayed. If you feel hurt you feel hurt. And if you feel shame you feel shame. When you deny your feelings to please someone else you are betraying yourself. Doing this will only confuse and frighten you. First step is to acknowledge that you have a RIGHT to your feelings. They belong to you. What you do after that is your choice. I would advise in situations of such intimacy to move forward in a way that would increase your self-respect. Beyond the confusion of thinking your feelings are not "right", I get the feeling that you already know what you need to do. lots of love.

First, I do think it was extremely disrespectful of him to ask such a thing and yes,I would feel hurt and betrayed too. You're right.. if he just wanted a whore for meaningless sex then he should go get himself a whore.

This being said, I do think you're over reacting, but only compared to someone else. I don't think your feelings are unjustified, but I think they're stronger than most people's given the situation. But you shouldn't be ashamed of that. You are the way you are for a reason and everyone reacts differently to things. You reacted in a way that was right to you.

If you want to salvage the friendship you need to talk about how you feel and why. Maybe there's another side to the story that he's not telling you.

dear Bipanah,
I just read over my earlier reply to you and it read more harshly than I realized. I hope it was some help to you, but I may have been talking more to my own issues. :) lots of love

I don't know what you will think of this. but here goes.
First go rent the movie when Harry met Sally. There is a lot of thruth in the saying "Men think about sex" over a thousand times a day. Perhaps your friend thought it was easier to ask someone he knew than to try and get it from a complete stranger - just think how much work that would be. Second... for me what works is humor. I'd just say to him, "wishful thinking, buddy. It's not going to happen and if you keep talking like that you can kiss our friendship goodbye." "I'm not open to Sex with you, but I am open to an apology, jackass"!

I too have lady friends that just want to be like brother / sister and I say you all come from way WAY out in outer space. Not just Venus but way out like Pluto or beyond.

A single man and single woman are not brothers and sisters, and friends make the best of lovers.

And I can not fathom how a woman (and many do) can get angry as how dare the man think about sex when "we are just friends".

I see many women denying their humanity by pretending genders do not matter. Like we are to be gender blind.

And yes - that movie "When Harry met Sally" is an excellant recommendation and I agree with Harry.

I disagree with Booky. I have brothers in Christ that I would never think of having sex with.

> booky:
I wish you could have been able to phrase your advice in a more considerate way. As I already wrote, I am hurting like hell and telling me that I come "way out of space" just ashames me and doesnt get me any further to deal with the pain, accept my own feelings or understand what is the issue at stake. I certainly am willing to learn and question myself, but only if the other respects me the way I am. Thank you.


But your answer has been helpful in the way that I can clarify one thing here: I agree with you that it is delusional to think that a friendship always shields you from sexual attraction between you and your friend. Iam sure there are cases where you do not feel sexually attracted and then there are cases where you do - thats very natural I guess.

And I would be the last not to admit, that I hadnt thought about having sex with that particular friend sometimes. And I am not at all insulted or hurt by the fact that he thought about me in a sexual way. My Ego actually likes it (I hate my Ego for that by the way ;))

I wouldn't have hurt even if he had told me, that he phantasizes about me sometimes and making it clear at the same time, that he does not intend to make it happen, because he respects my feelings and does not want to threaten the friendship.

Friendship for me is something which is based on true love, mutual respect and trust.

And here comes the point where I ache: I believe sex without love does not fit into a friendship, because if you love your friend (not talking about desire or attraction) you wouldnt involve in an interaction that is so very greedy and selfish.

Of course sex without love doesnt have to be hurtful, if both partners do not want anything else. But it can be very hurtful if that is not the case.

And for me I could not never have sex with my friends without feeling love - if I divorce sex from love in a friendship, I disconenct myself from the friend. So for me its either the friendship or the sex without feelings that will be sacrificed.

I would never in my life think of using a person whom I call my friend for the fulfillment of my own sexual desires. I dont need to sleep with every person I feel a desire for, I can very well restrain myself and I always do in a friendship.

Say it the other way around: If I would be able to sleep with some of my friends without feelings involved, Id have to admit that this person is not a true friend for me. If hed come afterwards and tell me I was a jerk, I would have to admit that I in fact was and that was all my fault.




I hold very dear what Khalil Gibran ("The prophet") said concerning friendship:

"Your friend is your needs answered.

He is your field which you sow with love and reap with thanksgiving.

And he is your board and your fireside.

For you come to him with your hunger, and you seek him for peace.

When your friend speaks his mind you fear not the "nay" in your own mind, nor do you withhold the "ay."

And when he is silent your heart ceases not to listen to his heart;

For without words, in friendship, all thoughts, all desires, all expectations are born and shared, with joy that is unacclaimed.

When you part from your friend, you grieve not;

For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain.

And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit.

For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mystery is not love but a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable is caught. "

Well do not get too angry at old "Booky" here as I just wanted to speak up for me and my fellow jerks here.

I know a lot of single women that want to be "just friends" with single men while us single men try to pry through those thick walls that women have around them self and around each other.

Your guy asked you in mail and I have flirted in email before as that is about as stand off-ish as we can possibly get and still we get called names like jerk or that we are ruining the friendship.

I really feel very safe in saying that single men do not want to be seen as "brothers" to the single women.

Remember Harry in "When Harry met Sally".

Brothers-in-Christ is fine with a married woman / sister-in-Christ.

The point is that us men see it quite clear that a single woman that wants to be "just friends" or "brother - sister" means the insult that we are not "good enough" to be a mate for the lady.

Now do not get too angry as you can feel any way you want but I just want to say that a man is not a "jerk" just because he propositions a girl that happens to be a friend.

I am single and I go to a Christian singles group and the ladies there have this idea that men and women are not to date unless they are engaged to be married. And no dating means no kissing, no holding hands, only timid and respectful upper body hugs.

I also go to no religious singles groups and they are prudish too as they just want "friends" to have fun with.

The religious group calls us brothers / sisters, and the secular group emphasises being "just friends".

On the Internet dating sites we have to claim big money.

The man is not really saying he just wants sex, he is asking for a relationship, and since we are already friends then a romantic relationship can only happen with intimacy - sex.

It is a mixed up woman's idea that sex with a friend is meaningless friendship sex - and it is not. The man is asking for a relationship closer then friends.

I know I am taking a hard line with all the females on the Board so do not blow up at old "Booky" here. We can still be friends.

I would prefer to hear some suggestions instead of criticizing.

I suspect that most women know the game well and they just want to string as many men along as they can until they find one they feel is good enough and then dump the slack.

I see it as a boundary thing for me, so I play friend or brother for a while and then I test the relationship to see if the woman is serious or not.

This is a painful thing for men too, and getting rejection is unpleasant in any form.

Wow thank you so much everyone - youve really helped.
Thanks for telling me that its ok feel what I feel - I am not able to believe it myself, but it does feel good still to hear it.
And I really need to think about what you said about male/female friendship+sex= insult vs. compliment vs. relationship vs. meaningless sex ? -issues.
And thanks especially to Booky (good ol'one ;)) who made the effort to explain so well his own perspective in a second try which was very considerate :) Thank you. So let me sleep over all this and I hope to wake up tomorrow with a smile and answer.

Sleep well ( I know its not night in the US, but still...)

I appreciate that explanation as well, Booky......I'd love to know your advice on my marriage too. I will message you.