Bereavement Support Group

Stacie,
You have the choice to believe whatever you wish, and you also have the choice to hear the truth, or to close your mind off from hearing the truth.

The Bible is the sole authority for our beliefs.

Since we, for the most part, all believe in the Bible and in the Christian God, Why do most people, all claim to have some belief in something, but not one person can back up those beliefs with anything even closely resembling a firm, solid foundation based solely on the Inspired Scriptures?
Instead, people choose to base their beliefs on some form of past handed-down tradition, cuz it seems more comfortable, and easier to deal with in the end rather than what the written truth is.
This just boggles my mind to no end.

I have given solid evidence and unrefutable proof that the Bible's statements are on the condition of the dead, and the hope for the dead, and for us that are still living. That does NOT mean we all HAVE to die to attain that hope...
Mankind is not destined to go the way of the dinosaurs and go extinct, because we WANT to go to heaven, but unfortunately, even IF we could go to heaven, NOBODY wants to do anything that would actually meet the requirements to even go there. Plus, All want to go to heaven, but is anyone will to die to go there? NO! All want to live here on earth, and enjoy the life we already have, isn't that true?


Wouldn't it be even so much better, if we could all enjoy life without end, and stay on earth, where there is NO MORE sickness, old age, crime, violence, wickedness, and wars, and death, and all the other troubles that plague the earth today? This is what God's Kingdom will without fail, accomplish!

We all pray the Lord's Prayer regularly, But how many people actually understand what that prayer actually means???
We are praying for the sanctification of God's most holy name, Jehovah, and to bring the Kingdom's attention to the earth, as it is now already ruling in heaven. This is the time that we all pray for, will finally be here, where God's means of having His will accomplished, and all the reproach heaped upon his name is finally cleared, and his great name is sanctified, and His Will is done concerning Heaven and the earth.

What is a hope, if you have no proof of it's basis?

God's Kingdom is the only and sole basis for hope for mankind's future, and that future is eternal life on a paradise earth, where the dead WILL come back to life in a resurrection.

But, If there is a life AFTER death, then of what use is the resurrection, that the Bible mentions and promises about over 400 times??

There, most definitely, is a Heaven, where God resides, and the Bible mentions that place dozens of times, so there is solid reasons for believing that heaven does indeed exist. But as for the condition of the dead, and where they go is also quite clear..."The Dead are conscious of nothing at all"-Eccl. 9:5.... and they don't actually go anywhere, but back to the dust. The spirit or life-force is just an element that brings life, this I have also made clear and easy to understand.

I want everyone to understand the Bible and it's sayings as clearly as possible, and Jehovah's Witnesses are able to help many people to do just that.

But, If those that choose to close off their mind to these truths, then when this system comes to an end, many will think that they are right and are going to be saved, and many will realize that their eternal end is coming in adverse judgment.

Either way, The choice is NOW to choose which side we want to be on. We've been in the last days for over 90 years now, and The end of the last days is fast approaching, and will not delay.

Something very serious to think about. Our lives are at stake...

Are you willing to bet your life that we are right about what we believe, without finding out the truth of the Bible's words, before it's too late?

Frspir007 I dont exactly know what to think It has been such a short amount of time since or baby brother passed all of theses crazy things have been happening to me that make me believe he is around like i will walk into a room and suddenly the washer will turn on or i will be watching tv and it will shut off and finaly my dog plays with and whines like she is interacting with somone but nobody is around this is what she used to do when he would come over. Im very conflicted because i dont know if its coincidence or signs from him I hope it is him letting us know he is watching over us.

They go to Heaven. I know this

Prof,
I guess I will be the bigger person here. This is not what this post started out as - debate between a baptist and a jehovah's witness.

Contrary to your words, my mind is not closed to the truth, thank you very much. I have scripture to support my beliefs as you have to back up your statements.

I say again your "solid evidence and irrefutable proof" is based on your faith's interpretation of scripture.

The fact that you say all other beliefs are false is insulting.

As I stated before - I know what I believe and can back it up. I'm glad you can do the same, but I apologize to the bystanders here.

Everyone here is entitled to their beliefs whether you or I believe them to be right or wrong. They do not deserve to be called 'false religions' just because they do not believe the way you do. That is why I responded to your post in the first place. Your 'truth' is as I've stated several times now - what you interpret scripture to mean. You hammer some verses while ignoring others.

This will be my last post to this chain. I apologize, my friends, for my part in this chain. It is hard for me to stand by silently while I'm told to be following a 'false religion' and called closed minded.

God's richest blessings to everyone here. I hope you find peace and comfort knowing we will see our loved ones again in heaven.

Blessings,
Stacie

i dont think people should prostlytize on here. everyone has their own belief system and all are valid for each person. i have talked with people who have left their bodies and returned, and for me, it sounds like all there is, is love. and thats all. unconditional love that is pure bliss. and , again, for me, i know there is no such thing as hell. there is only love. whatever god is, is love. but thats only my belief. i only share that , do not try to force it onto people. hugs and more hugs to you.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist and my Mother is a devout Christian. I do not go to church, but I do pray and I do read my Bible. Each person has his or her own ways abd beliefs. Most of us tend to follow after what we learned as children,or go to the opposite of it. WE come here to comfort not aggrivate each other. If I say I am praying for you.I hope that is not offensive to you. If it is tell me, and I will not write it any more. Some of my ancestors were American Indians. They worshiped The Great Spirit that lived in the moutains. If anything I ever say to anyone offends them,just tell me, and I will apologize, and refrain from doing it again. I will not however stop praying for you! I just will not tell you about it, so you are not uncomfortable. That sounds like a deal to me Peggy

To all who have read my posts, I never came on here intending to offend anyone, just to offer some sense of Comfort, and Hope to all those that have lost a loved one in death.

After all, Isn't this forum called, "Where do they go?" And Isn't death itself a topic that originates with religion to begin with? Death is in this world because of the disobedience and fall of Adam and Eve that we have death in the first place, and God's command to them not to do what He said that would bring upon the human race this terrible consequence for our original parent's disobedience to God's commands.

I am only trying to offer a bit of knowledge and education, although different than what many are brought up to believe, to share with those that might be ignorant and without hope, the statements I have made are not open to personal interpretation, as many of you believe that to be, It is plain and simple, and self-explanitory, and easy enough for most people to understand and not necessary to interpret in any particular way.

I am sorry If I have offended anyone, I only would like to see that everyone have the opportunity of hearing the hope that ONLY God's Kingdom will bring to mankind and to the earth.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses are doing as the Bible prophecied would be done in these Last Days, "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."
and For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” (Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:13)

Everyone needs to hear the truth about the Scriptures' sole and only hope for the mankind and for the earth, also the condition of the dead, and all other things written in His Word, have to be told to EVERYONE.

If what we believe is in NOT according to the Scriptures, then it is false, even though it might be backed up by some scriptures, by many it is misunderstood and misapplied. So many beliefs of what death is, and Where they go, such the ideas of life after death, and the teaching of Hell, and the immortality of the Soul, and many others, these are all false. ANY and ALL religions that teach these things, since they are NOT a Bible teaching are also false. Therefore, a false religion.

My statements of "solid evidence and irrefutable proof" are not just based on my faith's private interpretation, but is laid out and shown to be plain and simple, and easy for anyone to understand, unfortunately, most people are too ignorant to see that.

Stacie,
You can believe what you want to believe, and I'm sorry if you find this offensive and/or insulting, but you should know, If what is taught is not 100% Scripturally Bible-based, but instead is strictly a Church teaching, is NOT a teaching of truth.
All religions that teach contrary to the Bible, will eventually, but very soon, be destroyed. This is a statement, not hypothesis, or personal ideas or interpretation,... but of absolute Scriptural fact.
Like it or not, That is the truth.

Anyways, I do realize that, in some cases, I have been blunt and a bit too forward, and if this is the case, and you found my words offensive, Please forgive me, for I never intended to if I have offended anyone.

Hi everybody. I'm sorry I was AWOL. I was getting behind in temporal things and had to stay away for awhile.

Thank-you so much for your input. I see some people went to a LOT of trouble finding and presenting information, and I really appreciate that. I will have to agree though, that this site is not the place to call other people's religions false religions, and I apologize if I set the stage for that.
I do see that the Bible clearly instructs believers not to seek guidance from mediums, but do people receive supernatural guidance and miracles from God? Absolutely! And I see now that maybe that explains some of our seeming interaction with our loved ones who have passed on. If we believe in what mediums bring us, why not believe in what God brings us?! And why would the devil want us to believe we will die and roam endlessly around the earth unless we have Christ to lead us to the right place? That would make us want to believe in Christ. A good scumbag isn't gonna send us to the competition! :)

As far as God never changing... Could the death state for pre-Christ believers and the death state for Christians be different? Well isn't that what the Messiah is supposed to have accomplished? OK, OK.. I know it's a matter of interpretation... but we did hear more than one side... We do know, however, that He restored what Adam and Eve wrecked... We may not know specifically all the details... for all we know, maybe the apple was an Apple computer with a time warp navigator and they got on the Internet and found our discussion here and got confused and became forever lost and we made a bigger mess than we realized... :)

I'm happy to see more than one side was presented. I think I pretty much went full circle, but I came out of it much more rounded than when I went into it.

#58: I also see you asre right, that was wrong of me, and I also apologize for mentioning "false" religions to begin with, but we also need to recognize the need to see the Bible's direction in it's truths and teaching are crystal clear on what is right and wrong, and true and false, instead of relying on what we simply "think" or "assume" to be what is an accurate teaching, simply cuz that's how we've been brought up to believe. By all means Question your religion, and it's teaching, and find out what is right. Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, that your advancement may be manifest to all [persons]. "Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you."-1 Tim. 4:15,16.

Now, In answer to your next question, "Could the death state for pre-Christ believers and the death state for Christians be different? I can say, as I have responded to this question before, Definitely NO!
This topic was referred to more so in the Old Testament [Hebrew Scriptures] than in the New Testament [Greek Scriptures]. I think the Bible is clear throughout about this, whether it be in th Hebrew or the Greek Scriptures, The answer is the same, You're either dead and NOT alive, in a sleep-like state, in God's memory, or you are not dead, but alive and living and breathing on earth.
The man Job answered this quite well, when he said, at Job 14:1-15:
1 “Man, born of woman, Is short-lived and glutted with agitation.
2 Like a blossom he has come forth and is cut off, And he runs away like the shadow and does not keep existing.
3 Yes, upon this one you have opened your eye, And me you bring into judgment with you.
4 Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean?
There is not one.
5 If his days are decided,
The number of his months is with you; A decree for him you have made that he may not go beyond.
6 Turn your gaze from upon him that he may have rest,
Until he finds pleasure as a hired laborer does in his day.
7 For there exists hope for even a tree. If it gets cut down, it will even sprout again, And its own twig will not cease to be.
8 If its root grows old in the earth, And in the dust its stump dies,
9 At the scent of water it will sprout, And it will certainly produce a bough like a new plant.
10 But an able-bodied man dies and lies vanquished;
And an earthling man expires, and where is he?
11 Waters do disappear from a sea, And a river itself drains off and dries up.
12 Man also has to lie down and does not get up. Until heaven is no more they will not wake up, Nor will they be aroused from their sleep.
13 O that in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?
All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait,Until my relief comes.
15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you.
For the work of your hands you will have a yearning."


Let's break this chapter down. In Verses 1 & 2, When man is born, he is glutted with agitation, and when he dies, he is "cut off" and "does not keep existing". This obviously does NOT need any interpreting at all...it is quite clear.
Next, Job says,(Verse 7-9)
"For there exists hope for even a tree. If it gets cut down, it will even sprout again."
For if even a tree has hope, and if it gets cut down, it can also come back, So as setting this as an example, Job believed God had the ability to bring back from the dead all who have lived, like the tree sprouts again, so too, the dead can sprout again, by God's ability to resurrect the dead, who are sleeping in His memory, including himself at some point.

Next, in verse 10, Job asks, "But an able-bodied man dies and lies vanquished; And an earthling man expires, and where is he?"
Then Job goes on to say where he is, when he says, in verse 12: "Man also has to lie down and does not get up. Until heaven is no more they will not wake up, Nor will they be aroused from their sleep."

In Verse 13, Job after having suffered as much as he has, He begs God to let him die, so as to let the suffering end. At this time period, Jod had no knowledge of Satan the Devil and the challenge Satan had raised in heaven over Job's faithfulness, that no man would ever serve God out of pure motives, but only for out of what selfish things he can benefit from it.
Job says (vs. 13): "O that in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!"
Here, Job asked God to let him die, to be "concealed" in the earth, in the common grave, until God's anger turned back, assuming that God was angry for some reason unknown to him and was allowing this terrible plague of boils to torment his frail body.
Next, Job says in Verse 14, 15: "If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?
All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes.
You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning."

Yes, God has a "yearning" to bring back the dead, and eagerly anticipate the day when he will actually do this.
When Job said, "You will call, and I myself shall answer you." is the same, where it also says at John 5:28,29: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
Those that have dies, are alseep in God's memory and held "in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret" as Job said in verse 13.

In death, we sleep, just as Jesus himself said, in reference to Lazarus when he dies, that he was merely sleeping, “Laz´a·rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.”-John 11:11. Jesus had clearly stated, in response to his disciples shortly thereafter: "Therefore the disciples said to him: “Lord, if he has gone to rest, he will get well.” 13 Jesus had spoken, however, about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly: “Laz´a·rus has died, 15 and I rejoice on YOUR account that I was not there, in order for YOU to believe. But let us go to him.”-John 11:14,15.

This is just one of many accounts where it clearly says that the dead lie in a state of sleep, "conscious of nothing at all"-Eccl 9:5.

I hope that answers your question.

#58: I also see you are right, that was wrong of me, and I also apologize for mentioning "false" religions to begin with, but we also need to recognize the need to see the Bible's direction in it's truths and teachings are crystal clear on what is right and wrong, and true and false, instead of relying on what we simply "think" or "assume" to be what is an accurate teaching, simply cuz that's how we've been brought up to believe, or otherwise. By all means Question your religion, and it's teachings, and find out what is right. "Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, that your advancement may be manifest to all [persons]. Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you."-1 Tim. 4:15,16.

Now, In answer to your next question, "Could the death state for pre-Christ believers and the death state for Christians be different? I can say, as I have responded to this question before, Definitely NO! It is and always has been the Same.
This topic was referred to more so in the Old Testament [Hebrew Scriptures] than in the New Testament [Greek Scriptures]. I think the Bible is clear throughout about this, whether it be in the Hebrew or the Greek Scriptures, The answer is the same, You're either dead and NOT alive, in a sleep-like state, in God's memory, or you are not dead, but alive and living and breathing on earth.

The man Job answered this quite well, when he said, at Job 14:1-15:
1 “Man, born of woman, Is short-lived and glutted with agitation.
2 Like a blossom he has come forth and is cut off, And he runs away like the shadow and does not keep existing.
3 Yes, upon this one you have opened your eye, And me you bring into judgment with you.
4 Who can produce someone clean out of someone unclean?
There is not one.
5 If his days are decided,
The number of his months is with you; A decree for him you have made that he may not go beyond.
6 Turn your gaze from upon him that he may have rest,
Until he finds pleasure as a hired laborer does in his day.
7 For there exists hope for even a tree. If it gets cut down, it will even sprout again, And its own twig will not cease to be.
8 If its root grows old in the earth, And in the dust its stump dies,
9 At the scent of water it will sprout, And it will certainly produce a bough like a new plant.
10 But an able-bodied man dies and lies vanquished;
And an earthling man expires, and where is he?
11 Waters do disappear from a sea, And a river itself drains off and dries up.
12 Man also has to lie down and does not get up. Until heaven is no more they will not wake up, Nor will they be aroused from their sleep.
13 O that in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?
All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait,Until my relief comes.
15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you.
For the work of your hands you will have a yearning."


Let's break this chapter down. In Verses 1-6, When man is born, he is glutted with agitation, and when he dies, he is "cut off" and "does not keep existing". This obviously does NOT need any interpreting at all...it is quite clear.

Next, Job says,(Verse 7-9)
"For there exists hope for even a tree. If it gets cut down, it will even sprout again."
For if even a tree has hope, and if it gets cut down, it can also come back, So as setting this as an example, Job believed God had the ability to bring back from the dead all who have lived, like the tree sprouts again, so too, the dead can sprout again, by God's ability to resurrect the dead, who are sleeping in His memory, including Job himself at some point.

Next, in verse 10, Job asks, "But an able-bodied man dies and lies vanquished; And an earthling man expires, and where is he?"
Then Job goes on to say where he is, when he says, in verse 12: "Man also has to lie down and does not get up. Until heaven is no more they will not wake up, Nor will they be aroused from their sleep."

In Verse 13, Job, after having suffered as much as he has, He begs God to let him die, so as to let the suffering end. At this time period, Job had no knowledge of Satan the Devil and the challenge that Satan had raised in heaven over Job's faithfulness, that no man would ever serve God out of pure motives, but only for out of what selfish things he can benefit from it.
Job says (vs. 13): "O that in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!"
Here, Job asked God to let him die, to be "concealed" in the earth, in the common grave, until God's anger turned back, assuming that God was angry for some reason unknown to him and was allowing this terrible plague of boils to torment his frail body.

Next, Job says in Verse 14, 15: "If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?
All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes.
You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning."

Yes, God has a "yearning" to bring back the dead, and He eagerly anticipates the day when he will actually do this.
When Job said, "You will call, and I myself shall answer you." is the same, where it also says at John 5:28,29: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
Those that have dies, are asleep in God's memory and held "in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret" as Job said in verse 13.

In death, we sleep, just as Jesus himself said, in reference to Lazarus when he died, that he was merely sleeping. “Laz´a·rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.”-John 11:11.
Jesus had clearly stated, in response to his disciples shortly thereafter:
"Therefore the disciples said to him: “Lord, if he has gone to rest, he will get well.” 13 Jesus had spoken, however, about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly:
“Laz´a·rus has died, 15 and I rejoice on YOUR account that I was not there, in order for YOU to believe. But let us go to him.”-John 11:14,15.

This is just one of many accounts where it clearly says that the dead lie in a state of sleep, "conscious of nothing at all"-Eccl 9:5.

I hope that answers your question.