Bereavement Support Group

#29: I can see where you're going with your thoughts of life after death possiblities, but No, There is Nothing after death. And for reasons clearly made so far, I will explain further.

You see, The idea also goes into the idea there the "soul" survives the death of the body, and something continues afterward, such is the Christendom's belief of 'the immortality of the human soul'. And, since this is a religious matter, and since God created us, and gave us life, he also said they to Adam and Eve, "The day you eat from the tree, you will positively die"-Gen. 2:7.

But just what is death?
It is simply put, The opposite of life. "For dust you are, and to dust you will return."-Gen. 3:19b.
But what exactly does this mean?

Article from ther Brochure "Look! I am making all things New."

The Enemy—Death
God had stated the penalty for disobedience—death. In passing sentence upon the first woman, Jehovah said: "I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you." To the man Adam he said: "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:16-19) The disobedient couple were expelled from the Paradise of happiness into the uncultivated earth. In course of time they died.—Genesis 5:5.

It was only after they had fallen from the mark of perfection that Adam and Eve began to produce children. All men today are their descendants in imperfection, and hence all die. One Bible writer explains it in these words: "Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." What is this "sin"? It is a falling short of the mark of perfection or completeness. Jehovah God does not approve of or keep alive anything that is imperfect. Since all men have inherited sin and imperfection from the first man Adam, death has "ruled as king" over them. (Romans 5:12, 14) Fallen man dies, in the same way that the animals die.—Ecclesiastes 3:19-21.



What is this "death"? Death is the opposite of life. God had held before man the prospect of endless life on earth if he obeyed. However, he disobeyed, and the penalty was death, unconsciousness, nonexistence. God had said nothing about transferring man's life to a spirit realm or to a fiery "hell" if he disobeyed and died. He had warned man: "You will positively die." (Gen. 2:17) It was the man-slaying Devil who had lied in saying: "You positively will not die." (Genesis 2:17; 3:4; John 8:44) What all men have inherited from Adam is dustlike death.—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 115:17; 146:4.

Is there, then, no future for man who dies? There is a wonderful future! The Bible shows that God's purpose of a paradise earth for all mankind, including those now dead, will never fail. Says Jehovah: "The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool." "I shall glorify the very place of my feet." (Isaiah 66:1; 60:13) Out of the abundance of his love, Jehovah sent his Son, the Word, to this earth, that the world of mankind might gain life through him. (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9) There are three important things that we must now discuss and that Jehovah accomplishes through his Son, namely, (1) providing a release from the power of death; (2) actually restoring the dead to life; and (3) establishing a perfect government over all mankind. (end of article)

Now, Consider that the Bible says about the Soul, and why death is the opposite of life.
The Soul and Spirit are two very different things. The "Soul" [Hebrew word - ne'phesh, and the Greek psy'khe'] is properly translated, and interpreted to mean, the Body, Person, Being, and the life that the person or animal enjoys.

What happens to the Soul at Death, Ezekiel says, at 18:4: "The soul that is sinning - it itself will die."
Genesis 2:7: " And Jehovah God proceeded to make the man out of the dust of the ground, and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life [spirit - Hebrew - ru'ach, and Greek - pneu'ma], and the man came to be a living soul."
So, Man does not HAVE a soul, Man IS a Soul. He has a spirit, or the 'breath of life' that makes him a living soul, but that spirit is NOT a seperate entity apart from man, that lives inside of the body, as you might imagine, a ghostly apparition or a spirit entity that leaves the body and roams the earth, as in some cases we hear about in ghostly hauntings.
That is a work of the Devil, in making people believe that man does not die... as he said in the garden of Eden to Eve upon his deceiving her, "You will positively not die", This belief is a continuation of that lie, in making people believe that man does not die, but life continues elsewhere even if the body dies. (Gen. 2:17)

The Spirit is simply 'the breath of life, or life force, that give man life, among other meanings, but never referring to as a person, but instead as a force in motion, with visible results.
In direct contrast with the ancient Greek teaching of the soul as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that the Greek and Hebrew words used for soul (as noted above), as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer that which is material, tangible, and mortal.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says, "The soul [ne'phesh] is a far greater extension than our 'soul,' signifying life. The Soul in the Old Testament means not a part of man, but the whole man - man as a living being. Similarly, in the New Testament, it signifies human life; the life of an individual, conscious subject on earth. (Luke 12:22,23; 14:26; John 10:11,15,17)
Taken from the 1967 edition, Vol VIII, pg. 467.


Therefore, the Body [Soul], dies, and the spirit [life-force, breath of life is extinguished at death, nad is returned to God, into His memory, for the time when the future resurrection on a paradise earth is to take place.

The dead are clearly shown to be "conscious of nothing at all" and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Eccl 9:5,6,10; Psalms 146:4) Those dying are described as going into "the dust of death" (Prov. 22:15), becoming "impotent in death." (Prov. 2:18; Isaiah 26:14) In death there is no mention of God, or of any praising of him. (Psalms 6:5; Isa. 38:18,19)

In both the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because on the unconscious condition of the dead, but also through the resurrection. (Psalms 13:3; John 11:11-14)
The resurrected Jesus is spoken as as "the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death."-1 Cor. 15:20,21.

You asked me, "How can you say that after you die the dead has no conscious." then you said, "I don't think all the people in the world that have felt or had signs from their loved ones that have passed are signs of the devil trying to trick them."

I can rightly say that at death there is no consciousness, cuz this is what the precisely what the Bible says. I would prefer to belief the Bible over what Man might say, or what the mainstream religions might say. It is written, "Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, even as it is written: That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged."-Romans 3:4.

Man and common religions of the world around us are, for the most part deceiving, and deceivers. False religion has done all it can to dishonor God and teach false doctrine about Him, to trick man, even as far as to say that God would not just allow, but cause, suffering on earth, such as when we suffer the loss o fa loved one... That is NOT divine Justice, and it is impossible for God to act unrighteous and unjust in any way.

All that the Bible says is TRUTH in the absolute sense, for "it is impossible for God to lie".-Hebrews 6:18.

Most of all the things that most people in the world have been lead to believe, when it comes to religion, and faith, is an outright lie.
This is especially referring here to the topic of death.
Mankind has been deceived so much, and WHY? because,
the Scriptures tell us,
"If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things [Satan] has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."-2 Cor. 4:3,4.
Why is this? The only reason can be just one thing, "the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one."-1 John 5:19.

But if you would like to have your eyes opened to the truth of God's Word, and know and have full understanding in accurate knowledge, as I have, then follow that Bible's advise, Study and learn all that God will requires of you, "whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth."-1 Tim. 2:4.
"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."-John 17;3.

This is how YOU can understand all that is truth. Why not talk to Jehovah's Witnesses in your area, and ask for a free home Bible study and let them assist you in learning the Scriptures as they have with me, and You too can have the knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures in the fullest sense, and have the only hope that leads to life everlasting on a paradise earth.

Our memories of them are here, maybe that's why you think he is still here.
My memories of Mom are still so strong I expect to see her walking into my office or hear her voice on the other end of the phone.
As a Christian, and knowing my Mom was a believer as well, I know she's in heaven, in perfect health and happiness.
Stacie

I am totally confused. I just wish I KNEW FOR SURE where he was.

#33: What's the problem? Maybe I can help. Did you also lose a loved one in death, and want to know where he is? Please read my last postings, and you should be able to understand what happens to people when they die.
You have my sincerest condolences for your loss.

Thank-you again, everybody for your responses! I will have to print it all out and read it all. There is so much to read! My mailbox was so full today! :) But in the meantime, sorry if it's in there and I didn't find it yet, but I have two questions:

1.) Does anyone know if it actually says in the Bible that the devil or demons imitate our loved ones- or is that just a presumption?


2.) Could the references to people who are conscious of nothing in death be to people who died in B.C.? Maybe it's different for people now?

Actually, my friends, I do have access to the answers to these questions. This will be a very long post, so please bear with me.

Now, The first of 2 Questions posted is:
1.) Does anyone know if it actually says in the Bible that the devil or demons imitate our loved ones- or is that just a presumption?

Yes, There is ONE account in the Bible where evidence is shown of where demons impersonate dead humans.
Let me set this up for you, so when you read these verses, you'll know more about what you're reading.

In ancient Israel, the first Israelite ruler, King Saul was in a battle with the philistines, and at this time, The prophet Samuel, had recently died, and Saul was in mourning over him, and decided to inquire of Samuel. In an attempt to do so through his God, Jehovah, Jehovah did not answer him, so instead, He went to visit a witch, a practicer of Divination, a foreteller of events.
Please read on of 1 Samuel Chapter 28:3-20:
3 "Now Samuel himself had died, and all Israel had proceeded to bewail him and bury him in Ra´mah his own city. As for Saul, he had removed the spirit mediums and the professional foretellers of events from the land. 4 Subsequently the Phi·lis´tines collected together and came and pitched camp in Shu´nem. So Saul collected all Israel together and they pitched camp in Gil·bo´a. 5 When Saul got to see the camp of the Phi·lis´tines he became afraid, and his heart began to tremble very much. 6 Although Saul would inquire of Jehovah, Jehovah never answered him, either by dreams or by the U´rim or by the prophets. 7 Finally Saul said to his servants: “Seek for me a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship, and I will go to her and consult her.” Then his servants said to him: “Look! There is a woman who is a mistress of spirit mediumship in En-dor.”
8 So Saul disguised himself and clothed himself with other garments and went, he and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. He now said: “Employ divination, please, for me by spirit mediumship and bring up for me the one whom I shall designate to you.” 9 However, the woman said to him: “Here you yourself well know what Saul did, how he cut off the spirit mediums and the professional foretellers of events from the land. Why, then, are you acting like a trapper against my soul to have me put to death?” 10 Immediately Saul swore to her by Jehovah, saying: “As Jehovah is alive, guilt for error will not befall you in this matter!” 11 At this the woman said: “Whom shall I bring up for you?” To this he said: “Bring up Samuel for me.” 12 When the woman saw “Samuel” she began crying out at the top of her voice; and the woman went on to say to Saul: “Why did you trick me, when you yourself are Saul?” 13 But the king said to her: “Do not be afraid, but what did you see?” And the woman went on to say to Saul: “A god I saw coming up out of the earth.” 14 At once he said to her: “What is his form?” to which she said: “It is an old man coming up, and he has himself covered with a sleeveless coat.” At that Saul recognized that it was “Samuel,” and he proceeded to bow low with his face to the earth and to prostrate himself.

15 And “Samuel” began to say to Saul: “Why have you disturbed me by having me brought up?” To this Saul said: “I am in very sore straits, as the Phi·lis´tines are fighting against me, and God himself has departed from me and has answered me no more, either by means of the prophets or by dreams; so that I am calling you to let me know what I shall do.”

16 And “Samuel” went on to say: “Why, then, do you inquire of me, when Jehovah himself has departed from you and proves to be your adversary? 17 And Jehovah will do for himself just as he spoke by means of me, and Jehovah will rip the kingdom away from your hand and give it to your fellowman David. 18 As you did not obey the voice of Jehovah, and you did not execute his burning anger against Am´a·lek, that is why this is the thing that Jehovah will certainly do to you this day. 19 And Jehovah will also give Israel with you into the hand of the Phi·lis´tines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Even the camp of Israel Jehovah will give into the hand of the Phi·lis´tines.”

20 At that Saul quickly fell down his full length to the earth and became very much afraid because of “Samuel’s” words. Also, there happened to be no power in him, because he had not eaten food the whole day and the whole night."

(Taken from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

Why did Saul do this? The Book, 'Insight into the Scriptures' answers this question, and many others.

"In Israel. Even though God had legislated strictly against spiritism, spirit mediums appeared from time to time in the land of Israel. These were probably foreigners who came into the land or some of those who had been spared from destruction by the Israelites. King Saul removed them from the land during his reign, but evidently toward the end of his rule some spirit mediums again began their practice. Saul demonstrated how far he had removed himself from God when he went to consult the “mistress of spirit mediumship in En-dor.”—1Sa 28:3, 7-10.

King Saul’s visit to a medium. When Saul went to the medium, Jehovah’s spirit had for some time been removed from him, and in fact, God would not answer his inquiries by means of dreams or by the Urim (used by the high priest) or by the prophets. (1Sa 28:6) God would have no more to do with him; and God’s prophet Samuel had not seen Saul for a long period of time, from before David’s being anointed to be king. So it would be unreasonable to think that Samuel, even if still alive, would now come to give Saul advice. And God would certainly not cause Samuel, whom he had not sent to Saul before his death, to come back from the dead to talk to Saul.—1Sa 15:35.

That Jehovah would in no way approve of or cooperate with Saul’s action is shown by his later statement through Isaiah: “And in case they should say to you people: ‘Apply to the spiritistic mediums or to those having a spirit of prediction who are chirping and making utterances in low tones,’ is it not to its God that any people should apply? Should there be application to dead persons in behalf of living persons? To the law and to the attestation!”—Isa 8:19, 20.

Therefore, when the account reads: “When the woman saw ‘Samuel’ she began crying out at the top of her voice,” it obviously recounts the event as viewed by the medium, who was deceived by the spirit that impersonated Samuel. (1Sa 28:12) As for Saul himself, the principle stated by the apostle Paul applied: “Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting . . . Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.”—Ro 1:28-32.

The Commentary on the Old Testament, by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch (1973, Vol. II, First Samuel, p. 265), refers to the Greek Septuagint at 1 Chronicles 10:13, which has added the words “and Samuel the prophet answered him.”
The Commentary supports the view that is implied by these uninspired words in the Septuagint, but it adds: “Nevertheless the fathers, reformers, and earlier Christian theologians, with very few exceptions, assumed that there was not a real appearance of Samuel, but only an imaginary one. According to the explanation given by Ephraem Syrus, an apparent image of Samuel was presented to the eye of Saul through demoniacal arts. Luther and Calvin adopted the same view, and the earlier Protestant theologians followed them in regarding the apparition as nothing but a diabolical spectre, a phantasm, or diabolical spectre in the form of Samuel, and Samuel’s announcement as nothing but a diabolical revelation made by divine permission, in which truth is mixed with falsehood.”

In a footnote (First Samuel, pp. 265, 266), this Commentary says: “Thus Luther says . . . ‘The raising of Samuel by a soothsayer or witch, in 1 Sam. xxviii. 11, 12, was certainly merely a spectre of the devil; not only because the Scriptures state that it was effected by a woman who was full of devils (for who could believe that the souls of believers, who are in the hand of God, . . . were under the power of the devil, and of simple men?), but also because it was evidently in opposition to the command of God that Saul and the woman inquired of the dead. The Holy Ghost cannot do anything against this himself, nor can He help those who act in opposition to it.’ Calvin also regards the apparition as only a spectre . . . : ‘It is certain,’ he says, ‘that it was not really Samuel, for God would never have allowed His prophets to be subjected to such diabolical conjuring. For here is a sorceress calling up the dead from the grave. Does any one imagine that God wished His prophet to be exposed to such ignominy; as if the devil had power over the bodies and souls of the saints which are in His keeping? The souls of the saints are said to rest . . . in God, waiting for their happy resurrection. Besides, are we to believe that Samuel took his cloak with him into the grave? For all these reasons, it appears evident that the apparition was nothing more than a spectre, and that the senses of the woman herself were so deceived, that she thought she saw Samuel, whereas it really was not he.’ The earlier orthodox theologians also disputed the reality of the appearance of the departed Samuel on just the same grounds.”

Deut. 18:9-14: "9 “When you are entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, 11 or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable things Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. 13 You should prove yourself faultless with Jehovah your God.

14 “For these nations whom you are dispossessing used to listen to those practicing magic and to those who divine; but as for you, Jehovah your God has not given you anything like this."

This is clear evidence that Jehovah God, not only disapproves of spiritism, but it is strongly condemned in the Scriptures.
If Samuel would be able to be brought up through this means, do you actually think Jehovah God would allow such a thing? In No Way!!
Samuel strongly stood against the practice of spiritism, and this is the only way for anyone to assume to communicate with the dead. Since this is what is stated in Deut. 18:11, that anyone doing these thing is something detestable to God, and in vs. 14, it says that "Jehovah your God has NOT GIVEN YOU ANYTHING LIKE THIS."
Since this is the case, This can only be a work of the demons and the Devil himself to deceive people into thinking that the dead still live in some way or another.

---------------------------

In response to Question #2, "2.) Could the references to people who are conscious of nothing in death be to people who died in B.C.? Maybe it's different for people now?"

The Scriptures say that at Malachi 3:6a: "“For I am Jehovah; I have not changed."

God NEVER changes, and NEVER deviates from anything he has set out to do, He is the same NOW, and he has ALWAYS been. So, What he had said in the Old Testament, is the same for the New Testament.
Jehovah Himself never changes, But events, and situations, and circumstances change all the time, but as for Him, He is always the same.
All that he has written in the Scriptures is inspired of him, and delivered to man to write down for our benefit. "ALL Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."- 2 Tim. 3:16,17.

John 3:13 states: "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man."

ONLY Jesus himself, the ONLY one that has gone to heaven, is the sole individual that has come from heaven. No other human has EVER gone to heaven throughout all human history. We all sleep in death, and return to the dust from which we were made.
And at Hebrews 11:13a: "In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises."
All the people listed in Hebrews Chapter 11, had to sleep in death and await the fulfillment of the promises, just as we do now.

I hope this answers your questions. If you or anyone else, has any more questions, Please do not hesitate to ask. Thanks.

I have just found another article that goes further into the 1st Question you asked, in #35.

Again, a very lengthy posting. It's hard to make a full detailed response by keeping it short. So, Please read on and enjoy the information.


Do They Really Speak With the Dead?

SOCCER teams in Brazil sometimes seek help through spirit mediums. Why? In order to get advice because of fear that an opposing team may win. According to one newspaper, the “opportunity to communicate directly with the supernatural in search of solutions to all types of problems exerts a powerful influence upon millions of people.” In some countries, high-ranking politicians, artists, and businessmen regularly consult the spirits. In an effort to seek a cure or to solve a financial problem, many try to consult the dead, who are believed to be more enlightened.

But is it proper to try to speak with the dead? Is it really possible to do so? And are there any risks involved? You may be surprised to see what the Bible says.

What Happened in Saul’s Case?

Consider this real-life experience recorded in the Bible: Fearful of the enemy Philistines, King Saul of ancient Israel sought out a spirit medium in En-dor. He asked her to contact the dead prophet Samuel. On hearing her description of an old man with a sleeveless coat, Saul assumed this apparition to be Samuel. And what was the message? Israel would be given into Philistine hands, and the next day Saul and his sons would be with “Samuel,” indicating that they would die while fighting the Philistines. (1 Samuel 28:4-19) Is that what happened?

Not exactly. Saul was severely wounded in battle with the Philistines, but he died a suicide. (1 Samuel 31:1-4) And contrary to the prediction suggesting that all Saul’s sons would die with him, his son Ish-bosheth survived him.

But was it proper to inquire of the dead in the first place? No, it was not. The Scriptures tell us: “Saul died for his unfaithfulness . . . and also for asking of a spirit medium to make inquiry.” (1 Chronicles 10:13) Can we learn something from this? Yes. Saul died for asking a spirit medium to inquire of the dead. Why? Because in doing this, he disobeyed God’s explicit law: “There should not be found in you . . . anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) Why is inquiry of the dead detestable to God? Before answering that question, we may ask:

Is It Really Possible?

If anyone is to talk with the dead, the deceased must actually be alive. They must have immortal souls. Yet the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Therefore, the person himself is a soul. He does not have an immortal soul that lives on after the death of the body. In fact, the Scriptures say: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) Moreover, God’s Word says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,” mankind’s common grave.—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.

Far from being more enlightened, then, the dead are unconscious. So it is impossible to speak with them. Acting in harmony with God’s law against inquiring of the dead therefore protects us from being deceived. Yet, messages from the spirit realm are possible, as King Saul’s experience shows.

But What Is the Source?

For one thing, frauds are common among those professing to contact the dead. The World Book Encyclopedia informs us: “It has been shown that mediums trick people at séances into believing that spirits can communicate with the living. Scientists offer explanations for much of what happens at séances. For example, some mediums are ventriloquists. Some use helpers and various types of trick equipment. Others use hypnosis. Many people who attend séances have a strong desire to contact a dead loved one. This desire may make them believe that any message delivered by the medium comes from the spirit world.”

But should we think only in such terms? No, for adhering to God’s decree against inquiring of the dead also protects us in a far more significant way. Messages do come from the spirit realm, but their source is powerful creatures seeking to mislead mankind. The Bible identifies them as “wicked spirit forces”—Satan the Devil and disobedient angels known as demons. (Ephesians 6:12) When King Saul visited the spirit medium in En-dor, it was a demon that impersonated the dead prophet Samuel.

As illustrated in the case of Saul, the demons have nothing beneficial to convey, and their supposed help is short-lived. Like their ruler, the Devil, they are liars. (Mark 3:22; John 8:44) In this regard, the late British psychic researcher Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: “We have, unhappily, to deal with absolute cold-blooded lying on the part of wicked or mischievous intelligences. Every one who has investigated the matter has, I suppose, met with examples of wilful deception which occasionally are mixed up with good and true communications.” (The New Revelation, page 72) Of course, you do not want to be deceived, do you?

Now, consider this: History tells us about the slave trade and related sufferings. Would anyone willingly accept such hardship and humiliation? Of course not. Then why should we permit ourselves to become enslaved by wicked spirits? They not only lie but also rob people of their freedom and may even lead them to violence and murder. For instance, 29-year-old José of Pernambuco, Brazil, said that ‘a spirit entered into him, forcing him to kill his year-old daughter.’ Yes, involvement with wicked spirits can lead to such slavery. Well, then, just as grieving slaves of the past yearned for freedom, so those enslaved by the demons today should want to be free. One way to achieve this freedom is to refrain from consulting spirit mediums and attempting to speak with the dead. For that matter, is there . . .

Any Need to Speak With the Dead?

No, because we are not without assistance. Like children who trust their father, we can freely ask for help from the heavenly Father, who is pleased to assist the honesthearted. (Luke 11:9-13) God’s prophet Isaiah wrote: “In case they should say to you people: ‘Apply to the spiritistic mediums or to those having a spirit of prediction who are chirping and making utterances in low tones,’ is it not to its God that any people should apply? Should there be application to dead persons in behalf of living persons? To the law and to the attestation!”—Isaiah 8:19, 20.

Yes, we have a solid basis for confidence in Jehovah God if we do his will and refuse to have any contact with wicked spirits. The Christian disciple James wrote: “Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7) After studying the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses, a man who had practiced spiritism for 28 years stated: “Never fear what the Devil may do to those who abandon spiritistic practices, but, rather, trust in Jehovah God.”

Filling the mind with the truth from God’s Word and acting on it will enable us to “put on the complete suit of [spiritual] armor from God” that we may “stand firm against the machinations of the Devil” and not be enslaved by wicked spirit forces. (Ephesians 6:11) Moreover, praying to Jehovah regularly will provide a powerful defense against demon molestation.—Proverbs 18:10.

How comforting it is to know the truth about the condition of the dead! Death is like a profound sleep. (John 11:11) And Jesus Christ guaranteed that there would be a resurrection of the dead.—John 5:28, 29.

Together with his wife and children, one man who had been a spiritist learned from the Scriptures that no one needs to try speaking with the dead or someone impersonating them. Like this family and many others around the world, you too can enjoy spiritual freedom. (John 8:32) Learn the truth about the dead and God’s purpose for mankind. Then you can look forward to Jehovah’s new system, where you can speak with resurrected loved ones and enjoy eternal life under peaceful conditions.—Isaiah 25:8.

Prof,
I had several notes to share disagreeing your so-called myths and have condensed as much as possible. Suffice it to say, I did not want to flood this topic with posts as to why my beliefs are right and every one else’s are ‘false religion’. I don't believe that way. I think what we have here is a difference of opinion based on your faith’s interpretation of the Bible.

Please remember we are not here to determine what is ‘true’ or ‘false’ religion. That is for neither you nor I to put upon others. No one has denounced God’s Holy Word as false; the only thing I question is one religion’s interpretation of scripture over another’s interpretation.

Many intelligent people can interpret scripture to mean whatever they would like it to mean.

My main disagreements are as follows:
1. God IS ultimately responsible for all things – including death because He is “God over everything” Romans 9:5
That took me a long time to come to terms with. Why did God allow my Mom to die? It seemed so senseless, so unfair. The point is – He’s God. He sees the ‘big picture’ and knows what’s best. He is God = all powerful, all knowing and ever present. If that doesn’t ultimately make Him responsible for ALL things, I don’t know what does.

2. Some people ARE tormented after death. What do you call ‘hell’? The ultimate everlasting place of punishment. As you say, search the scriptures yourself – heaven and hell are both mentioned and defined.

Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

3. We DO go to heaven to be with God in paradise forever as the wicked who will not accept Christ go to eternal punishment.

2Corinthians 5:1-10 (the Message Bible) For instance, we know that when these bodies of ours are taken down like tents and folded away, they will be replaced by resurrection bodies in heaven--God-made, not handmade-- and we'll never have to relocate our "tents" again. Sometimes we can hardly wait to move--and so we cry out in frustration. Compared to what's coming, living conditions around here seem like a stopover in an unfurnished shack, and we're tired of it! We've been given a glimpse of the real thing, our true home, our resurrection bodies! The Spirit of God whets our appetite by giving us a taste of what's ahead. He puts a little of heaven in our hearts so that we'll never settle for less. That's why we live with such good cheer. You won't see us drooping our heads or dragging our feet! Cramped conditions here don't get us down. They only remind us of the spacious living conditions ahead. It's what we trust in but don't yet see that keeps us going. Do you suppose a few ruts in the road or rocks in the path are going to stop us? When the time comes, we'll be plenty ready to exchange exile for homecoming. But neither exile nor homecoming is the main thing. Cheerfully pleasing God is the main thing, and that's what we aim to do, regardless of our conditions.

We don’t go to heaven when we die? How about the thief on the cross?
Luke 23:43 (KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. It’s not just about those that ‘do good things’; those that go to heaven are those that have believed in Jesus Christ as he is the ONLY way to heaven.

4. The Bible clearly states there IS life after death. See the above mentioned verses.

5. Immortal means just what we think it means – “living forever and never dying.” Check out Webster’s dictionary – there’s no reference to “life within one’s self”.

6. Who will be resurrected? Those in the Lamb’s book of life – those that have accepted Christ as Savior.

7. There is no sin that is beyond forgiveness except one – the sin of unbelief.

I truly believe there are some things we are not meant to understand, and I believe death is one of those things. If we understood everything, we would be as God, and there is only One True God.

I hope I have successfully refuted a few so-called facts here. I say again, no one is questioning what the Bible says as truth, but rather I do question your interpretation. Our purpose here on this site is to share our personal beliefs and try to help others come to terms with the death of a loved one.

Respectfully,
Stacie

from someone who had 3 near death experiences. hugs to you.

http://www.nderf.org/beyond_light_...

My Catholic upbringing says "heaven", but, the truth is, I have no clue. Part of me thinks they go IN HERE, inside us, their loved ones, at the subatomic level! They're in there, building us up, making us strong, keeping us going, there to lean on when we miss them and feel down. It makes sense--the spirit wants to go where it knows it will be loved. And God lives in us too, so, when their spirit is in us, it is also with God.