Alcoholism Support Group

Nemorino wrote:

"Then I suppose it must be pointless to ask how they became oldtimers at all. "

I met a women in AA who:

Drank one time.

Blacked-out one time.

Has been in AA 18 years and she not only considers herself an Old-timer but slings slogans with the best of them.

Does she have the right to be in AA? - Dam right she does - she has a desire to stop drinking.

Is she a genuine "old-timer"? - I don't think so. She has no clue what "real alcoholics" go through or how hard it is for us to stay sober.

I suspect that half of the so-called old-timers are "problem drinkers" who were mis-diagnosed before they went to AA.
They simply "Choose" not to drink one-day-at-a-time and think they know something about recovery. That is one of the reasons that the AA "Message" is not getting carried to the newcomer.

Clarence Snyder predicted over 50 years ago that when the "Token Collectors" took over AA the recovery rate would drop to near zero (which it has).

boleon,

For the first couple years I was in AA, one oldtimer would often say to me, "I'm glad you're here. You keep me sober."

Would you believe that for about two years I actually thought that was a compliment?

Where did you get the statistic that the AA recovery rate has dropped to zero?

Diane,

They had to lower the standards so I could join. My apologies to all.

HA! Nemo.

I can't see how Bolean can say that.

I see sober people at the AA meetings I've been going to. How can that number be zero?

I don't even announce, at this point in time, when I've had a month, two months, or three months of abstinence. I don't care about tokens.

Since my relapse three years ago, I have quite twice for six months, once for four months and quite a few times a month here and a couple of months there, so I just don't care about tokens and I am waiting until I have more time this time to even claim how much time I have.

Diane,

The simple fact is that for the first couple of years I was as crazy as a shithouse rat. Mercifully, you might say, I was totally blind to that as my inflated ego compensated for the black holes that were still festering below the surface. I was a legend in my own mind, don'tcha know.

To me, going to meetings and using the steps as coping skills in daily are like a person with failed kidneys getting hooked up to a dialysis machine. It's not about getting something out of AA, but of getting rid of the poison that's already in me. When that oldtimer would say he was glad I was there and that I kept him sober, he meant that seeing my craziness was like looking in a mirror and seeing his own insanity reflected back at him. I was keeping him sober by giving him cues to take his own inventory. Not very flattering, is it?

But once I got over that little insult to my vanity, all the rest of it got a lot easier. You might even say I was amazed before I was halfway through.

Well, In my opinion, he's a fucking narcissistic, ignorant, pseudo elitist. Then again maybe he just made a mistake. OR maybe he was drunk! LOL!

Talk to him and the speaker and help them to realize they are both important. I wouldn't hang onto it. Hopefully, the Chairman will respectfully apologize to the both of you. That would be the honorable thing. If not, don't hang on to resentment. Don't let anyone steal your program or happiness.

He might learn something as this crazy life throws us several lessons on a daily basis. I know, it sucks!

Nemo,

I knew what you meant.

I just don't know where Bo is getting his information, that's all.

But you can keep talking to me if you want Nemo. LOL You know I like that.

In addition,

Dewey often thanks people for going out and doing more investigating for him so that he doesn't have to when they relapse and come back.

I get you Nemo most of the time.

I hope you don't mind if I call you Nemo. Nemo. LOL

Diane,

It's better than what people used to call me.

Another story, from the Grapevine several years ago. A couple in Chicago got delayed one evening and realized they'd never make it to their regular meeting. So they looked in their local meeting list and saw that there was one they could get to in the detox ward of a nearby hospital.

The meeting, they said, was a total disaster-- people zoned out on Librium getting up, walking around talking to each other and sometimes shouting, no Preamble, no coffee pot and the chairman was a Caspar Milquetoast orderly who just smiled at the whole chaotic scene. They stayed for the hour but swore they'd never go back there again, and they never did.

Seven years later they were at their home group and a fellow they didn't recognize walked up and addressed them by name. He said, "Hi, my name is Mark and I'm sure you do't remember me. But seven years ago I was a patient in the detox ward at the Blahblah Hospital, and one night you guys came to the meeting there. Well, you said something that really clicked with me that night and Ive been sober ever since. I just want to thank you."

Am I missing something here, or is saving people's lives what AA supposed to be all about?