Parenting Preschoolers (3-5) Support Group

Well, you are probably not going to like this, but you are going to have to get mean.

One, starting tonight DO NOT sit in her room. Tell her she HAS stay in bed until you come get her in the morning. If she gets up punish her. You may even try punishing her if she screams. I do not allow my son to throw temper tantrums any more. But as a father, I am more strict then most mothers. :)

Two, use rewards that she can understand. For example our son decided that he no longer wanted to be potty trained and started just going in his underwear, so I told him every time he went in his pants he would get in trouble, but every time he went on the potty he would get some candy. He has not had a mistake since.

I am a strong believer in using positive and negative reenforcement to teach.

Right now she is training you to do what she wants. Depending on how strong her will, and how serve your punishments are it could take a while, and you will have to have the stronger will and out last her.

My son is very strong willed and I had to take the baby monitor from my wife when we went through this fight with him because like you she could not take his screaming. We actually got a video baby monitor so that we could see to make sure he was okay and not crying because he got hurt or something.Cost us about $100 that we did not have, but it was the best baby gizmo we ever bought cause now he sleep by him self fine. :)

They key is you have to take back control, and not let her know that she is having an effect on you.

NOTE THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AS A FATHER OF A THREE YEAR OLD. I AM NOT A DOCTOR NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON THE INTERNET.

:)

Thank you for the reply. I actually told my daughter about it after she gave me her Christmas present. First let me tell you what her Christmas present to me was. We were sitting at dinner tonight and she said, "Mommy, for Christmas, I am going to start putting myself to bed. That's my gift to you." No lie. No kidding. I asked her if she was serious and told her about the exchange I'd had on the support group (if you see my profile, you see I'm into attachment parenting). I told her I was getting ready to start being mean to her ;-) She was really glad that she had decided to give me this gift tonight!
I really do thank you for this advice, and I took it to heart on several incidents unrelated to sleeping today--she pulls my chain non-stop.
Peace.

In case your daughter has any relapse on the sleep issues I wanted to share my story with you. I suppose you could say that my parenting syle is attachment parenting as well. I have 2 children with very different needs and as a result I have had to be flexble with my parenting approach. I have a 4.5 year old who co-slept with us for the first 18 months and then until a couple of weeks ago we had to lie next to her for her to fall asleep, of course half the time we would fall asleep as well. We tried to sleep train but it didn't work for any of us. Both my husband and I felt like it was rejecting an emotional need she had, my younger daughter never had this issue and has always been pretty good about putting herself to bed with very little assistance - and hardly any crying. (interestingly enough Ferber, the cry it out specialist, has now totally changed his take on sleep training and is now a total supporter of co-sleeping). What finally ended up working is that after cuddling in bed for 10 minutes (we really cherish this time), we would keep the light on in her room at a dim level, the door open and either my husband or I would be in the office across the hall until she fell asleep. This worked wonders, no crying, and we could get things done. It is great having more free time!

Hopefully you don't need this advice and things have worked out with your daughters gift. That was so sweet and sensitive of her. You must have a very close relationship.

Wow! Your 4.5 yr old sounds so similar to my child. I've read Raising a Spirited Child with such intensity because it talks about how some children (spirited ones in particular) just don't have the same sleeping habits as others. The author points to people who become night workers or third shift workers and talk about how these patterns begin early. With my daughter, I'd say they began in utero as she would start kicking around 8pm and wouldn't stop until 1am or so. Now I just know that I have to tire her out during the day.
Funny you mention working in the other room on the computer. She told me the things I was going to do after I left her room--go into my office, which is beside her room, and work on the computer, then go talk on the phone, then go to bed and read books.
She has done well for 3 nights now, though I do have to say that she whimpered last night and said she wanted to take her present back:-)
Thank you for sharing.

Wow! Your 4.5 yr old sounds so similar to my child. I've read Raising a Spirited Child with such intensity because it talks about how some children (spirited ones in particular) just don't have the same sleeping habits as others. The author points to people who become night workers or third shift workers and talk about how these patterns begin early. With my daughter, I'd say they began in utero as she would start kicking around 8pm and wouldn't stop until 1am or so. Now I just know that I have to tire her out during the day.
Funny you mention working in the other room on the computer. She told me the things I was going to do after I left her room--go into my office, which is beside her room, and work on the computer, then go talk on the phone, then go to bed and read books.
She has done well for 3 nights now, though I do have to say that she whimpered last night and said she wanted to take her present back:-)
Thank you for sharing.

The Christmas Present quote is just the cutest thing ever. So sweet. I hope that the sleeping is still going well. I know with my 4 1/2 year old son, bedtime has ALWAYS been an issue. He HATES going to be and he always has. We go through periods where it's smooth sailing and then just out of nowhere, he'll fall off the wagon and we go back to the screaming, tantrums and crying. It's exhausting. When he was in his "monster in the closet" phase, we made a monster kit and it's pretty smooth sailing ever since. Other times, we did reward charts. He would pick out a toy (I would print a copy from Amazon) and we would make a star chart... if he went to sleep without any hassle for 7 nights, he would get the reward. Obviously we didn't do this every week... but I've done it a few times over the years and it gets him in a good groove for quite some time.
And now we're at the point where I do NOT lay down with him but I sit in a chair in his room for about 3 minutes (after stories, etc) and then I say, okay, I'm going to get my pajamas on and get ready for bed too... good-night.
Hope this helps!

Hi,

I am not going to offer you a magic solution because I do in fact experience the same with my own 3 year old daughter. However, in opposition to the previous poster I would not recommend you to "get mean", which as far as I am concerned has nothing to do with good parenting. I am definately not an expert, but I don't think children necessarily hesitate to fall asleep on their own because they are "defiant" or want to be difficult. You mentioned that you are in the middle of a divorce. Your daughter may naturally go through a tremendous emotional rollercoaster these days where instead of "punishment" and "hard dicipline" she needs a little extra TLC. I fully sympatize with your experiences of time restraints, but maybe your daughter feels the same way. She might feel that she doesn't get enough quality time with you, and for that reason is unwilling to give up the little bit of what she may perceive to be quality (night)time with you. I understand that you are exhausted right now, but sooner or later your daughter - and mine - will grow out of this. And if they grow up to be emotionally harmonious human beings, all those nights by their bedside might have been well worth it. Think of it this way - a child who wants a parent to be around at nighttime does actually reflect a personality trait that is directly opposite to asocial, unloving behavior. And after all, a child who treasure a parent's company is something most teenage parents would treasure...

Best wishes to you!

Thank you to all who have posted on this topic. My daughter did indeed take back her thoughtful Christmas present. What it did teach me is that she is capable of going to sleep on her own, but that I do give in to her fears rather easily. I have to agree with the last post in that I cannot imagine her sleeping with me at 11 years old. She is an incredibly independent child in all other aspects of her life, but she has pretty bad nightmares. So obviously I am feeding this dependency. I do not want to be mean. I cannot stand to hear her sobbing behind the door. I do, however, come to my rope's end sometimes, and I think that is where this posting came from.
I believe there will be a night, just like on Christmas eve, when she says, "Mommy, you can leave now."
Until then, we'll continue to negotiate, and I DO look forward to any more suggestion you have!
Thanks.

Since I'm new to this group, I realize this is a bit of an older topic but think I have another suggestion for you. Read the book Drawing the Line. You don't have to read the entire thing but it's a very easy read (and partly entertaining). They go through the issues associated with going to sleep by themselves. For some, it's more about attention and others it's something else. They are HUGE on positive reinforcement and if misbehaving, the attention is taken away. Just my 2 cents! Good luck.

Well I think you are going to have to work your way out of her room. Meaning, sit on the floor in her room and gradually scoot closer to the door while not giving her eye contact or speaking to her. This gradual leaving her room is less stressful for her and will only take a few nights or so to work. So potentally you could be able to leave the room as soon as you tuck her in for the night in about a week. I saw this on Supper Nanny, and it worked!